https://declassified.library.utoronto.ca/files/original/18ec89508d110597ce0881686967526f.pdf 7ddf544515dd42b360ae89a2a085ef3b PDF Text Text Document disclosed under the Access to Information Act • ppcument rliuulgue en vertu de la Loi sur I'acces. Sbo2%-AQ- ^° iS v? _, bi NO, H * » OP SECRET (Unless otherwise classified) i • & ^ & JOINT INTELLIGENCE StJB-CQMKLTTEE Minutes of the 20th meeting of the Joint Intelligence Sub-Committee held in the Conference Room, Room ABl3t "A" Building, on Friday. B Feb 52, at 1400 hours. D-9- <£ y ^_a__ PRESENT? 4 5 6. 7 3 ? 10 1 1 8 FEB 1952 Lt.-Cdr. K. Birtwistle, Directorate of Naval Intelligence. (Chairman) Lt.-Col. L.E, Sarantos, Directorate of Military Intelligence. W/C J.C. Mulvihill, Directorate of Air Intelligence. Mr. R.A. Berry, Directorate of Scientific Intelligence. Mr. T. LeM. Carter, Department of External Affairs. Mr. J.D. Forbes, Joint Intelligence Bureau. Inspector T. Guernsey, Royal Canadian Mounted Police. Major J.E. Beswick, Joint Staff and Secretariat. ^y~ 4 4 (Secretary) ALSO PRESENT. S/L J. Gellner, Interrogation Co-ordinator. I. MINUTES OF PREVIOUS MEETINGS meetings. II. 1. (UNCLASSIFIED) The Sub-Committee approved t h e minutes of the 18th and 19th INTERROGATION PROGRAMME (CONFIDENTIAL) 2. The Sub-Committee convened to discuss proposals for an interrogation organization. At the 18th meeting it had been decided that, as many aspects of the problem could hot be resolved then, further consideration should be deferred until the end of January. In the intervening time activities were to continue on a trial basis, with emphasis being placed on certain aspects of the trial. (CSC 1330-1 (JIC) of 5 Feb 52) 3. S/L Gellner reported that during the trial period a considerable amount of guidance material had been collected. However, outstanding results were not achieved as an insufficient number of sources were reported. Difficulties were encountered as the Co-ordinator has no official status and channels of communication are not well defined. Furthermore, the lack of funds has hampered the conducting of many interrogations. TOP SECRET 000508 �Document disclosed under the Access to information Act Document divulgue en vertu de la Loi sur I'acces a I'information TOP SECRET - 2 An extension of the trial period will not,reveal any more information on which to base recommendations for the future of the interrogation programme. The trial period has shown that useful information can be obtained, and a number of test screenings has revealed that many immigrants enter Canada without having been intercepted by either the UK or the US interrogation organizations. Many favourable comments have been received fr oa the US arid the UK. However, views on the value of the information obtained from all of the interrogations conducted so far, are not available as evaluation takes some considerable tirae. A* "Inspector Guernsey informed the~Sub-Committee that he had requested RCMP officers overseas to comment on certain aspects of the proposed interrogation programme. The effectiveness of the list of requirements could be improved considerably as the present list, because of its length and the amount of duplication, is very confusing and hard to handle. Also, unless the interrogation form is kept short, RCMP would require additional staff overseas. It would be preferable if preliminary interrogations could be done by a special staff. However, the RCMP are prepared toieontinue on the present basis provided the requirements are simplified and provided longer forms are not instituted. As more experience is gained the flow of information can be expected to improve. 5o Lt.-Col. Sarantos reported that since October DMI has been asked to interrogate three subjects. Only one has been interrogated as the othej. two have moved from their 3f_ported residences and have not as yet been traced. 6. Lt.-Cdr. Biyfewistle stated-that DNI had been asked to interrogate three subjects, but as the intelligence officers concerned encountered financial difficulties, the interrogations have,not as yet been conducted. 7. W/C Mulvihill stated that DAI has participated in fifteen interrogations and some very useful information has been obtained. No great improvement, however, in quantity or quality can be visualized until a firm organization is adopted. S. Mr. Carter commented that it would be better if not more than one department became involved in conducting preliminary interrogations overseas. As the RCMP are responsible for the security checks of.immigrantsp they appear to be the best agency to do the preliminary inJ_5rrogations0 9» Inspector Guernsey pointed out that there are many worthwhile sources in Canada who have not been interrogated even though their presence has been reported on more than one occasion. As some are of quite high calibre, same effort should be made to interrogate them. . , 10. Lfr-° Colg Sarantos commented that Canada cannot expect-to set up an organization with a scope approaching that of the US and UK organizations. Therefore, it would appear preferable that we attempt to interrogate the comparatively smaller number of immigrants who have particularly useful intelligence to divulge, rather than to dissipate our effort in interrogating a large number of immigrants who may have less useful information• TOP SECRET �Document disclosed under the Access to information Act Document divulgue en vertu de la Loi sur I'acces a I'information TOP SECRET _3_ 11i In the ensuing discussion the following points were acknowledgeds (a) The trial period has revealed the value of the Interrogation of immigrants, defectors, refugees, etc., as a source of intelligence. As the source is one of the very few ways in which Canada can obtain original intelligence it is most desirable that the source be exploited. To this end an interim organization is required. (b) Canada is not officially ______tted to participate in the Target Objective Folder Programme. However, the requirements of this programme are so broad that they include all other requirementsc No special arrangements would be necessary to obtain information of value to the target programme, but copies of interrogation reports could be passed to the responsible i j ^ g ^ ^ -toeiSi. i __e .. - *.'•' (c) Canada can contribute more by ensuring that subjects of considerable intelligence interest are interrogated, rather than by attempting tcf';'i^t'e^rdgate large numbers of immigrants. -(d) It is preferable: hot to involve more than one agency overseas in conducting preliminary interrogations. As they appear to be better able to do this' than either Departments of Immigration or Labour officials, RCMP should continue to conduct the preliminary interrogations. These can be supplemented as necessary by special arrangements made by the interrogation organization to question subjects at their points of entry into Canada, or at transit camps. (e) The number of preliminary interrogations that are conducted should be limited by our facilities for interrogating subjects and processing the reports obtained. Therefore, it is necessary to simplify the requirements in order that the RCMP staffs. overseas can more readily recognize the more worthwhile sources. • (f) Service intelligence officers in the field are unable to conduct all the interrogations that will be desired. Therefore, a special pool of trained interrogators on the establishment of the interrogation office will be required. In special cases arrangements could be made to have service intelligence officers in the field and/or RCMP detachments undertake or assist in Interrogations. (g) The JIC should retain functional control of the interrogation organization while JIB should be responsible for administrative control. 12. The Sub-Committee agreed; (a) to recommend to the JIC that. (i) the interrogation of immigrants, defectors, refugees, etc., as a source of intelligence be exploited, (ii) steps be taken to set up the following interim organization J Co-ordinator . 3 interrogators 1 stenographerj and TOP SECRET- �Document disclosed under the Access to Information Act Document divulgue en vertu de la Loi sur I'acces a I'information TOP SECRET - A(b) the Secretary should circulate for the approval of the Sub-Committee, a draft submission before referring the findings and recommendations to the JIC* (J.E. Beswick) Major, Secretary. 16 Feb 52 JEB/StfS/fjp DISTRIBUTION Nos. Nos. Nos. Nos. Nos. Nos. No. No. No. No. No. 1-2 3-5 6-7 8-9 10-11 12-13 14 15 16 17 18 DNI - Attention Lt.-Cdr. Birtwistle DMI - Attention Lt.-Col. Sarantos DAI - Attention W/C Mulvihill External Affairs - Attention Mr. Carter DSI - Attention Mr. Berry JIB - Attention Mr. Forbes RCMP - Attention Inspector Guernsey JIS DJS and circulation Circulation, COS Secretariat JIC file TOP SECRET 000511 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context CDDF00025 Title A name given to the resource Minutes of the 20th meeting of the Joint Intelligence Sub-Committee Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 08-Feb-52 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Library and Archives Canada, Record Group 25, vol 7931, file: 50028-AQ-40. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Government of Canada Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Canadian Crown Subject The topic of the resource Cold War Defectors Description An account of the resource Canadian Foreign Intelligence History Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Canada Declassified Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF Language A language of the resource en