https://declassified.library.utoronto.ca/files/original/92ff26b136758fbb7ce8776b572c9183.pdf f74ace392e135f9877e678d1872cec47 PDF Text Text ( ! i “bocumehtdisslosed under the Access to Information Act Document divulgue en vertu de la Loisur I'&tcesh /'information ' Toll peon*" . ( ct FAAtas P. COPY ONE OF FIVE RI CADDEL SAIOCM JU2C/64 TSIC BACCI HO RFT HO DISTRIBUTICJ ! » TO EXTASSAL 273 CPiKUED THIS NS3 TO DE DELIVERED ICHEDIATELY TO ARUCL9 SZTH AUD FAREAST DIV CEY TT UASWC(N20 RCSINS03)DE OTT KEF UASSC TEL 1991 MAY3S. IBITZAL VISIT TO MAROIs CALL CU FS PHAM VAN DCS F RECEIVED UE FCS FOU2 AND A HALF TKRS HORNING JU 18 WITH CULY LT COL KAI Lat,EIDZR TUO NAU OF PAVU LIAISON NISSIC,EREENT. CCSVERSATICSSUAS ENTIDELY IU FEEEGZ WITH NO BPI NO USE OF VIET® MAnECz At EUSTERPTETATIC WHICH IAD BEEH PRACTICE IN EARLIER LCJER 2 LEVEL CALLS C VIS EZEZGTERS C7 DEFENCE AND FGREIGS AFFAIRS. CAFTER VERY BRIEF PEEL Ki WAR IE S, I TOLD RI TMAT I IAD CJ ESTRCST- ICS SPECIALLY DICUSTED ITznVIEU WITH HIB AUD/OR PRESIDENT HO CHI MAH AS I HAD ORAL BSA TO CONVEY FACI rd PEARSON cFERMAPS EST EXMLMATIC: VAS TO EE FOUND IU NY TEC INSTRUCT ICS FaC HY FS 6MIGH I VAS AUTHORIZED TO St0U MIM.PHA! VAN DC3G EAD LET 07 HAY3D FRC F FEARSOU TO YSELF CAREFULLY ONCE AID THEM OUIGMLY eenze.m SAID KE GREATLY APPRECIATED ROLE CDA EAD USBZNTA/O TO PLAY,WHICH 13 FELT VAS IPORTAUT AUD DESIRAELE,CMD UISuED UE ALSO PERSONAL SUCCESS IN TASK.TCNE OF CCEVEREATICN ZIEREAFTER,1 ELIEVE PHAU VAY DC 6 KAS WDERSTCCD AUD ACCEPTED AND FERMAPS 9" ] LZLCCHED UY nCLE AS IETERNZDIARY. . 3.1 SAID THAT I HOPED. IS UCULD LET UE ELABORATE P "SPY NAzt LINES GF BY INSTRUCT 10S FRC RI AND IN EFFECT IU uw^.i su win FIRST GENERAL KGS FRC USA COVT.I PREFACED S3 DY UAITICS OUS CLOSE AND FRIENDLY RELATIC"SHIP WITH USA,OUR aceo UIDERSTANDIG G7 AUERICAS IBTESTICNS ASPXDATJCIS ANO oun CONSTANT RETAILED ABD WT-WATE EXCHANGE OF VIEWS AED IHFO WITH USA WHICH GAVE US EXCELLEiT ISIGMT WTO AMERICAN THI:!:G.08 THIS EASIS,tE WERE CONY ISCED THAT ..2*9% ' 000173 �Document disclosed under the Access to Information Act Document divulgue en Vertu de la Loi sur l'acces a I'information i ■ 4 / PAGE TE0 273 FRESIDZMI J02SC:3 WAS BAN OF PEACE,THAT IE WOULD TAIE GREAT PAINS TO AVOID AUD AVERT SITUAT ICS WHICH COULD LEAD TO CCMFRCNTATICN | ETUEEH HAJOR POWERS,BUT TMAT INSOFAR AS Sous H ASTASIA WAS CCUCERN- mi WAS DETERMIIED TMAT IT WOULD HOT n PT HOT FALL CIDER CCUIST ! COITRCL AS RESULT OF SUBVERSION AND GUERILLA WARFARE. i ITEETICNS IN SCUTIZASTASIA WERE ESSENTIALLY'PEACEFUL AND USA j eBITICS WERE LIITEDDUT USA WAS ALso DZTEEIICED AND ITS FAT- : IEucz ezronz FROVCCATECN UAS HOT AMT HOT LIMITLESS. i 4.TNIS SAID,I UEDT GN TO CONVEY USA NS3,FOLLOW ING AS CLOSELY * AS I COULD, T1OUH HOT RFT HOT NECESSARILY IN SA5 ORDER,7012 2 3 i NADE IN PARAS 6 THROUGH .11 CF vASiDC TEL 1S51 BAYSOolu COURSE I j | q CCVERSATIC,1 EADE ALL TIZS POINTS EXPLICITLY AND WITHOUT i CIRCELoour ICN AND ID SOME CASES WITH ELABORATION AND EEFZTITIe, I SMALL NOT RPT HOT TIEREFORE REPEAT Tin 1 THIS TEL.I DID HOT RFT ' NOT SPECIFICALLY nan POINT IN PARA 12 OTIER THAH TO SAY THAT IF : COFLICS IN AREA SHOULD ESCALATE,WHICH I DID HOT RPT- NOT THINK WAS IN ANYCNES ITERESTTK GREATEST DEVASTAT ICN WOULD OF COURSE : RESIST FOR n DRVH ITSELF. ' 5.1 AH CONVINCED FROM LATER CONVERSATION THAT PHAM VAN DONG U- j D&aSTOCD IPDRTAECE AND CONTEXT C7 1188 I CONVEYED AND SERIOUSNESS ! WITH WHICH USA VIEWS SITUATION IM SOUTISASTASIA.TO THAT EXTENT, INITIAL PURPOSE 07 FIRST CCTACT KS BEEN SUCCESSFULLY : ACCOMPLISHED. GAVE KE CAREFUL IARIG WITH HO RFT HO ATTEMPT TO INTERRUPT,DISAGREE,CONTRADICT OR EVEN EXPRESS DISPLEASURE . EVEN TO ASSERTIONS WHICH WERE CLEARLY USPALATADLE OR WITH WHICH HE ; WOULD HOT RPT HOT AGREE,EG VIETNINN GaFL ICITY IN FATEZT LAO - ACTIVITIES AND Svu INSURGENCY AND DRVH RESPCSSIDILITY FOR FUTURE ' DZVELOFAEMT OF SITUATION IN AREA .THIS IS HOT RFT HOT OF COURSE TO ■ TO SAY THAT I CCNVICED HIM 07 CORnzCTEZES 07 USA ITERPRETATICS WHICH OBVIOUSLY I DID NOT HPT HOT)ROR THAT 12 FULLY LILIEVES 3 000174 �■ t t . 1 7 f i PAGE TIEE 275 EvEE YET FIEss Ar DUAOILITY 07 USA DETERN mArIC In AREA. IS f COULD HOT RFI do KOJEVER CLAIM TMT IS KAS NOT RPT HOT HAD USA vIzuS AND ITEMrICss CONVEYED TO HIM MOST EXPLICITLY. -! i 6.1 CECLLED O72N1N0 STATENEUT BY SAYING I UAS AT PRIME HIISTEns DISPOSAL DOW 02 AT ANY LATER STAGE TO CONVEY TO USA VIA OTT ANY use i KE VIS13D TO GIVE DE CRALLY C2 IM WRIT IG. IS SAID IS EAD HO RPT MO IEEDIATE ALD SFCEPIC use TO SEuD AT THIS TIME,BUT THAT HE WOULD LIi TO EXPOUND co DRUM POIUT 07 VIEU WITH PARTICULAR nzF TO POINTS I "AD RAICD IN NY COMEMT.I SEALL EI SENDING SezszeUzUT- . LY DETAILED REPORT BASZD C. HOTES MADE AS 13 TALED,05 PR WK HIISEERS REEARNS IN HIS MAIN STATEMENT AMD XU COERSS .07 SUsOZuLLda DISCUSSIC.Ia HIS INITIAL TEL ruzVzn I SHALL MERELY SUMMARIZE wAt APPEAR TO HE TO BE HIS HAIN POINTS AND GIVE HY FIRST mPEESSt ras. 7.PMAn van DONS OPENED nEHenrs DY carte VE nust LEARM TO COEXIST AD TO FIND. SGL Us ION TO PROBLEM WEIGH RAS URACIDILOOCUINA FOR . & YARS DU: JUST soLuTIC IS CLY HAY TO PROVIDE STABILITY. Just SCLUICHHEAUS IN DRVB IS AS PRESIDENT BO CHI uus IAS EX- PLAIUEDCA USA UlTOnAVADCD PEACE A EEUTRALITY . FCR SVB IM cAHDCDAU PATTERN IN ACCCADANCE WITH PROeRAGEE 07 LIBl EATIC FRONT URICH nust PARTICIPATE IN DETEMIIATIOS OF VIETNAM AS 1 RESULT C7 NEGOTIATION WISH svn READY FOR DZGOTIATIC. . 8. PA SAID Usa BUST DEMONSTRATE wrr LZ WOULD CONSIDER GOOD WILL 4 BUT Ex REALIZED IT WILL HOT RPT HOT BE EASY FOR USA TO DO SO. USA CAW INCREASE AID TO SVN il ALL FIELDS, JIVE GREATER MATERIAL SUPPORT i TO svn ARMY AND INCREASE ITS en ARMY PERSONNEL ALSO. IF SO,UAR k WILL BE PROLONGED A ED INTEMSIFIED ,DUT QUOTE OUR PEOPLE UIGUOTE WILL 03 ON STRUGGLINa Ata RESISTING.QUOTE IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR WESTERNERS TO UIDERSTAED STRENGTH OF PEOPLES HILL TO RESIST,TO CONTINUE,TO STRUGGLE. IT as ASTON ISID US TOO UNQUOTE .PROSPECT FOR USA AND I 000175 h �• Document disclosed'''under the Access to.Information Act Document divulgue en vertu de la Loi sur l’acces a I'information ( PACE FOUR 273 FIEUDS IS QUOTE sans ISSU u QUOTE, svu MERCEOARUS AND USA SOLDIERS. DO HOT RPT HOT IAvE MAR IN FIGHT 1DO VIEREAS SUPPORT FOR OBJECTIVE 07 LIBERATION FRONT IS c2OU1S AneG BUDDIISTS,STUDms, INTELLECT LALS. LIPFAG SEES HO RPT NO LIGHT AT END OF TUNNEL - MD OrEERS SPEAK OF HEU DIEN DIEN PHU. SDRVE GOVT,SAzD F,DXD NOT RPT NOT YET EAVE CONCRETE SUGGESTIONS TO PUT FORUARD,BUT THIS UAS GENERAL LINE OF THEIR THINKING. 10. IN SEPARATE TEL WITHOUT BACOS RESTRICTIONS I SHALL REPORT IN CEATER DETAIL Fas COUEITS ON LAOS SITUATION ESSELCE OF HIS - DARKS WASG')CELT VIABLE SOLUTION WAS RETURN TO STATUS QUO ANTE APRIL COUP D’ETAT A13 GOVT or NATIONAL COALITION AS PER GENEVA I AcceaD CF 1238CB2UCSSSITY OF CONVENING 14 NATION CONFERENCE TO ACHIEVE THIS RESULT AND COE SCENT 1AL IT Y OF HO RPT NO AMERICAN MTERFSREIICE IN LAOS. K SAID DEVN WAS VERY WORRIED BY STEP-UP cr USA MxLxtan ACTIVITIES IN LAOS AND C c3 PLAINED OF USA OVERFLIGHTS o DRVH TERRITORY AND or CetALDO RAIDS ACROSS BORDER. K DENIED 1 ; THAT PAVN MAD SENT QUOTE WITS WOuOTE ACROSS BORDER TO AID PATYET LAO BUI DID NOT RPT NOT SPECIFICALLY DENY NY EARLIER S1ATEHEHT THAT USA WAS AWARE DRVN WERE LPJG PSTIZT LAO AND VIET CONG WITH HEU, ASUS AND HATERIAL. 11.RETURSINO TO CESTIC.OF sva.ma VAB DCJG s a id s it u a t io n COULD E SUMED U? AS CECICE ESTUEEN QUOTE GUERRE AOUTRAUCE UNSGUCTE WHICH USA CAEOT RPI HOT G3N IU ANY EVENT ZT1A 102G RUl 03 ALTER- DATIVELY EEUTRALITY FOR SVN. 12.1 TMNKED RI FCR DETAILED EXPOSE OF DRV2 VIEWS WHICH I SAID I WOULD TRANSIT FAITYFULLY TO UY GOVT .AT THIS HE SAID DISARAIECLY TRAT I MIai HOT P.FT HOT BELIEVE ALL IE HAD SAID BUT IE VAHTED TO ASSURE NE HE HAD SPOKEN IB ALL SINCERITY AND FRANKNESS. I SMALL HOT RPT NOT DE SO RASH AS TO CORNEUf ON THIS OTIER THAN TO SAY THAT HE TOOK PAINS TOUGMOUT ISTERVIEU TO GIVE IIPRESS1CS OF OUIET SIN- CERITY,OF REALIZATION OF SERIOUSNESS OF V 1 UE WERE DISCUSSING AND ...5 000176 �■ ■ 00 . Document disclosed under the Access to Information Act Document divulgue en vertu de la Loi sur I'acces a I'information 1 PAGE FIVE 273 < 07 LACK 07 TRUCULENCE OR EELLIGENZLCY.CERTAILY IN PRESENCE AND MEMTAL STATURE F IS LZAD ALD SHOULDERS ABOVE FEW OTIER NORTH . YIETNAHESZ unco I NET AND CCIDOUZTEDLY AN IMPRESSIVE COIst PEE SODALITY DY ANY ST AWARDS. 13.AT THIS STAGE I TOLD R I HAD NO RPT NO FURTHER FOCAL MESSAGE TO CCVEY BUT TMAT I WOULD LIKE TO PUT A FEW PERSCJAL CCIEHTS AND c ue st i as. 14.1 SAID I HAS INTERESTED TO IEARFRC KIN TAT AS A coDIrIe FOR RESTORING PEACE svu SHOULD EECORE NEUTRAL AS A FIRST STEP PRIOR TO REUAIFICATIC, STOPPED UE AND SAID KE 10 NOT RPT NOT REFERRED TO NEUTRALITY AS A FIRST STEP CLY.t izTiaR sv: WOULD CONTINUE NEUTRAL veuLD DEPEND UPON PEOPLE OF svo.l DID NOT RPT NOT PREJUDGE. AS FOR LIEZRATIC FRONT I SAID I REALIZED IT REPRESENTS A CERTAIN FORCE 19 sva, THOUGH NOT RPT NOT IN NY VIEW ALL FEOFLE AS THE PROP. AGAIDA ASSERTED NOR EVEN MAJORITT.I DID NOT RPT NOT DENUR AT THIS DWXUgRADIDO.I SAID 1 APPRECIATED THAT Ti FRONT WOULD HAVE TO PART- ICIPATE SHOULD A CeaLITIC EVER EnEneE NY FEAR KOSEVER WAS TIAT COALITION EOULD SOON BE TAKEN OVER BY FWT AS HAD HAPPENED IN OTIR COUNTRIES AND TT OTIER REP ELEMENTS WOULD SUFFER OR BE OUSTED.m HERELY SAID t JERE WAS NO RPT NO REASON TO HAVE SUCH FEARS. 15.1 TIN ASKED WITIR FA APPRECIATED FULLY TMAT USAS CCT INLED . ACCEPTANCE OF OELICATICNS TOWARDS ALLIES IN SVN KAD iFLICATIES WHICH EXTENDED FAR ESYOD SOUTIASTASIA AND RELATED TO USA DETER- LATIONTO RESIST GUERILLA SUBVERSION IN ASIAJAFRICA AND LATIU- - MHERCATTM LALAIZD AND SAID i DID INDEED APPRECIATE ITAUSA DEFEAT IN SVN WOULD IN ALL PROBABILITY START A CHAIN REACTICI WHICH WOULD EXTEND MUCH FARTIZR.DUT USA SHOULD UNDERSTAND THAT PRINCIPLES AND STAIES INVOLVED VERE JUST AS HIGH FOR LIBERATION FRONT IN SVN AND ITSSUPPORTERS AND THIS EELFED TO EXPLAIN THEIR DTEENINATIOa TO CONTINUE ...6 L 000177 �Document disclosed under the Access to Information Act Document divulgue en- vertu de Id Loi sur l'acces a 1'information I rCZ SIX 273 STRUGGLE RZGARDLESS 07 SACRIFICE. 16.M SAID IS SAS GLAD TO KAZ TIAT USA DID NOT RPT HOT LAVE AGGRESS- IVE zusiEUTzeis AGAINST DRVN AND DID NOT RPT NOT INTEND TO ATTACK IT.I k CORRECTED HI AT THIS POINT AUD SAID USA DID NOT RPT HOT BALT Tn I CARRY VAR TO NORTH BUT HIGEE BE OBLIGED TO DO SO 23 PUSEED 1 * BY CCTINIUZIC 07 VIETUIEH-SSISTED FRESSURES(GRP CORRUFT)S/ X f RPTD TIT USA PATIEUCE UAS HOT RPT HOT LIEITLISS.F SAID IF UAR VAS PUSIZD TO NOR71, QUOTE HOUS RPT HOUS SQIS UH PAYS SCCIALISIE 9 Ul DES PAYS SOCIALISTES,VOUS SAVZZ ,ET LE PEUFLE S DRESSERS WCUOTE. GEIS VAS THE CLOSEST 12 CAUE AT ANY TIUE TO NIBTIG TXAT DRVN COULD 02 UOULD COUS ON OUTSIDE ASSITABCE IN EVENT OF ATTACK.) I ■ ET,l SAID,UZ SMALL HOT RPT HOT FORCE USA,UE SHALL HOT RPT HOT PROVOKE TlZH. 17.CCVERSATZON HAD HOW CONTEUED FOR alnOST HOUR AND A HALF AND Fil HADE HOVE AS IF TO TERMIEATE,S0 I DID NOT RPT HOT PUT FURTLR CUZ STIOS.! ASNZD ME TO SEBD EREETINGS TO PH FARSON ADD TO SAY T!AT IF BY ISSIC COULD CONTRIBUTE TO THIS(GRP RISSING)SCLUTzCN CDA | OULD HAVE DCNE SCNETEING VERY USEFUL.I SAW X FELT IT WAS AT TIUICi ESSENTIAL THAT DO RPT HO IRREVOCABLE STEPS BE TAKi DUE TO WISWIDERSTANDING 07 IBTEUTICS AND OBJECTIVES AUD THAT USA FELT THIS f STRONGLY TOO.FB ACREED,619 SAID IS LOOKED FORWARD TO FURTIER CONVERSATION DURING KY NEXT (GRP EISSU0)118 I WOULD CERTAINLY MEET | HO CHI HINH. PRESIDENT WAS ON LEAVE AT PRESENT BUT IAD SENT GREETINGS® \ I CLOSED BY TUCKING HIM FOR TIME GIVEN HE AUD REPEAT 13 I WAS AT } t. | HIS DISPOSAL AUYTIE KE WISIED TO SEE us. 18. IN SEPARATE MSG I SMALL REPORT FIRST VERY TENTATIVE IFRESSICNS 1 Qi QUESTIONS ASKED IN PARAS FOUR AND FIVE OF UASNOC TZL 9S1 20736. 19.I EXPECT TO BE SEEING MR LODGE SHORTLY AFTER MY RETURN TO SAICON (THIS TEL IS BEING DRAFTED IN PLANE ENROUTE FRCA HANOI) AND WILL SHOW HIM COPY® ! 26.I VOUD WELCOME COMMENTS FROM YOU AND STATE DEPARTMENT AND ANY SUGGESTIONS FOR TALKING POINTS FOR FURTLR CONVERSATIONS ON NEXT VISIT TO HANOI. 000178 �Document disclosed ^er the Access to Information Act Document divulgue en vertu de 'la Loi sur l'acces a /'information f APPENDIX 10 * ( FM CANDEL SAIGON JUN22/64 /sEC BACON NO RPT NO DISTRIBUTION TO EXTERNAL 282 OPIMMED TO BE DELIVERED IMMEDIATELY TO ARNOLD SMITH AND FAREAST DIV ONLY TO TT WASHDCCATTN HBO ROBINSON)DE OTT RLR 4Sp. REF MYTEL 273 JUN23 1 22/by DRVN:ATTITUDES AND OUTLOOK to convey specific msg and to report DRVN comment is relatively SIMPLE.TO ATTEMPT EVALUATION SUGGESTED PARAS4 AND 5 WASEDC TEL 1551 MAY32 IS EXTREMELY DIFFICULT ON BASIS OF 3 DAY VISIT AND A FEW CONVERSATIONS ESPECIALLY FOR SOMEONE WHO HAS NEVER HAD PREVIOUS DIRECT EXPERIENCE WITH ASIA LET ALONE VIETNAM.FOLLOWING COMMENTS,TO BE READ IN CONJUNCTION WITH MY REFTEL,ARE THEREFORE HIGHLY TENTATIVE AND CONSIST MAINLY OF NEGATIVE EVIDENCE. SINO-SOVIET SPLIT AND PREVALENCE OF CHINESE COMMUNIST INFLUENCE 2.NO RPT NO VIETNAMESE WITH WHOM I SPOKE MADE EVEN REF BY NAME TO USSR OR.CHINA.MY ENQUIRY OF VICE-FOREIGN MINISTER TIEN AS TO DRVN VIEWS ON LATEST SOVIET CALL FOR MTG ON WORLD CPS DREW REPLY THAT question concerned party only and WAS not rpt not within competence OF FOREIGN MINISTRY.TO DIRECT QUESTION HE SAID DRVN HAD NOT RPT NOT COMMENTED ON LATEST MCOW CALL BUT GENERAL VIEVS COULD BE FOUND IN PRESS.EASTERN EUROPEANS WERE CLOSED MOUTHED ON THIS ISSUE. j PM MADE ONLY MOST OBLIQUE REF TO DRVNS MEMBERSHIP IN GROUPOF socialist countries in context of possible results of USA taking WAR TO NORTH. 3.FRENCH DEL GEN DEBUZON ASSERTS DRVN LEADERS ARE HONESTLY CONCERNED BY BAD EFFECT OF SPLIT ON FORTUNES.OF WORLD COMMUNIST MOVEMENT AND HAVE AVOIDED POLEMICS AGAINST USSR EVEN WHEN ADOPTING PEKING LINE. KE THINKS THEY FEAR DEFINITIVE RUPTURE WHICH WOULD (THROW? )TFEM FULLY UNDER CHINESE CONTROL,A FATE THEY HOPE TO RESIST AS LONG a . . 2 000179 �■ Document disclosed under the Access to Information Act Document divulgue en vertu de la Loi sur l'acces a /'information 9 PAGE TWO 282 AS POSSIBLE.THEY ARE NOT RPT NOT HOWEVER STRONG ENOUGH TO PLAY DISPUTE FOR THEIR OWN PURPOSES AS HAVE ROMIANIANS, 4.IN. ECONOMIC FIELD,PROBES WITH VIETNAMESE AND EASteRNEUROPEANS WERE LITTLE MORE REWARDING.STRONG VIETNAMESE EMPHASIS AT PRESENT IN OFFICIAL PROPAGANDA AND IN PRIVATE CONVERSATION IS ON LIFTING UP BY OWN BOOT-STRAPS AND NEAR-AUTARCHY.DURING LENGTHY TOUR OF EXHIBITION OF TEN YEARS OF DRVN,GUIDE RPT GUIDE MANAGED TO DESCRIBE ECONOMIC PROGRESS FOR AT LEAST HALF HOUR’WITHOUT ONCE MENTIONING AID RECEIVED FROM OTHER SOCIALIST COUNTRIES,(THOUGH?) w h en Qu e s t io n e d BY USSR a nd d ir e c t o r a d mit t e d it h a d b e e n g r e a t w it h l io n s s h a r e CHINA.REpS OF SMALLER EASTERNEUROPEAN. POWERS TOLD ME OF THEIR RELATIVELY MODEST AID AND TRADE BUT WOULD NOT RpT NOT BE DRAWN ON RELATIVE WEIGHT OF SOVIET AND CHINESE AID.SOVIET CHARGE SAID THAT SOVIET AID IN FORM OF TECHNICIANS AND TRAINING OF STUDENTS IN USSR HAD DIMINISHED AS DRVN CAPACITY FOR TRAINING OWN CADRES HAD GROWN.HE ADMITTED CHINESE WERE STILL VERY ACTIVE IN AID FIELD BUT WOULD NOT RPT NOT BE SPECIFIC. 5.FOREIGN REP IN HANOI TELL ME CHINESE TECHNICIANS ETC ARE NOT RPT NOT MUCH IN EVIDENCE BUT THIS PROVES LITTLE.UN SKILLED EYE CAN EASILY FAIL TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN NORTHVIETNAMESE AND SOUTHER, CHINESE CLIQUES IN FACTIONS IN PARTY OR GOVT. 6.1 CAN ADD NOTHING FROM OBSERVATION OR CONVERSATION IN HANOI 'TO ANALYSIS OF COMMONLY ACCEPTED LINE-UP OF PRO-CHINESE EXTREMISTS AND PRO-SOVIET MODERATES OTHER THAN TO DRAW ATTENTION TO MODERATENESS OF PHAM VAN DONGS TONE DURING INTERVIEW GT HO CHI MINH APPEARS STILL TO ENJOY TREMENDOUS PRESTIGE AND IS VENERATED AS DEMI-GOD,PERHAPS ABOVE ANY FACTIONAL STRIFE, NON-COMMUNIST REPS IN HANOI AND NATIONALIST CHINESE AMBASSADOR HERE WARN AGAINST OVER EMPHASIS ON FACTIONALISM AS(SOMETMING?)FROM WHICH WEST MIGHT C • a •3 000180 �r Document disclosed under the Access to Information Act Document divulgue en vertu de la Loi sur l'acces a /'information ! PAGE THREE 282 DEVRIVE BENEFIT.NATIONAL PRIDE IS APPARENT FROM PHNAM VAN DONGS REMARKS AND FROM CALL FOR ECONOMIC SELF-HELP. DIFFERENCES BETWEEN POLITICAL AND MILITARY. 4 f 7.I CAN ADDUCE NO RPT NO EVIDENCE ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. FRUSTRATION OR WAR WEARINESS. 8.1 CAN BRING FORWARD NO RPT NO EVIDENCE THAT SUCH(EXISTS?)AND INDEED ALL VIETNAMESE EMPHASIZED QUIET DETERMINATION TO GO ON STRUGGLING AS LONG AS NECESSARY TO ACHIEVE OBJECTIVES WHICH THEY SAID THEY WERE BOUND TO ACHIEVE IN LONG RUN WHILE SOME DISCOUNT 1 SHOULD PERHAPS BE MADE FOR FACT THEY WERE SPEAKING TO ME,THESE ASSERTIONS CARRIED A GOOD DEAL OF CONVICTION AS IF REALLY BELIEVED. • THIS APPLIES PARTICULARLY STRONGLY TO PHAM VAN. 9.HANOI ITSELF THOUGH AUSTERE LOOKED MUCH LESS RUN DOWN THAN 1 EXPECTED.TEAM SITE OFFICERS AND OTHERS WHO HAVE BEEN NORTH OVER COURSE OF YEAR SAY SUPPLY OF CONSUMER GOODS WHILE STILL PITIFULLY v SMALLCHAS?)INCREASED MARKEDLY.I SAW SOME QUEUES BUT NO RPT NO EVIDENCE OF MALNUTRITION NOR RPT NOR DID I FIND PEOPLE LOOKING I MARKEDLY SADDER OR MORE SERIOUS THAN THOSE IN SOUTH.TEAM SITE OFFICES HAVE SEEN NO RPT NO EVIDENCE OF OVERT DISCONTENT AMONG PEOPLE. 1 DESIRE FOR CONTACTS WITH WEST. 4 i 10.PHAM VAN DONG SEEDED GENUINELY GRATEFUL FOR INTERMEDIARY ROLE e CDA WAS TRYING TO PLAY AND ALSO I THINK FOR USA DESIRE TO GET MSG a THROUGH.IT WILL TAKE SUBSEQUENT VISITS TO DECIDE WHETHER THIS g REFLECTS INTEREST IN OR DESIRE TO EMERGE FROM ISOLATION,LET ALONE | INTEREST IN ANY ACCOMMODATION OR SETTLEMENT OF LAOS AND SVN PROBLEM CONCLUSIONS. 11.TENTATIVE CONCLUSION IS THAT WE WOULD BE UNWISE AT THIS STAGE TO COUNT ON WAR WEARINESS OR FACTIONALISM WITHIN LEADERSHIP OR • POSSIBLE MATERIAL ADVANTAGES TO DRVN OR KIND OF ASIAN TITO-IS AS q «e 4 000181 �Document disclosed under the Access to Information Act Document divuigue en vertu de la Loi sur l'acces a I'information PAGE FOUR 252 of such IMPORTANCE to cause DRV: to jump at CHANCE OF REACHING ACCOMMODATION WITH USA IN THIS AREA.CERTAINLY ON MY BRIEF VISIT DETECTED NO RPT NO EVIDENCE TO SUGGESTCAS SOKECOLUMISTS HAVE I BEEN DOING)TEAT STARVATION,WAR WEARINESS AND POLITICAL DISCONTENT ARE BRINGING REGIME CLOSE TO COLLAPSE AND THAT THEY WOULD THEREFORE GRASP AT ANY STRAW WHICH MIGHT ENABLE THEM TO SAVE SOMETEING BEFORE COUNTRY FALLS APART. 12.PROSPECT OF WAR.BEING CARRIED TO NORTH MAY GIVE GREATER PAUSE FOR THOUGHT.BUT I WOULD HESITATE TO SAY THAT DRVN ARE YET CONVINCED, DESPITE USA PUBLIC STATEMENTS AND MOVES AND PRIVATE MSG I HAVE CONVEYED,THAT USA REALLY WOULD BE PREPARED TO TAKE THIS STEP, ULTIMATE CONSEQUENCES OF WHICH COULD BE START OF WORLD WAR III. I AM ALSO INCLINED TO THINK THAT DRVN LEADERS ARE COMPLETELY CONVINCE THAT MILITARY ACTION AT ANY LEVEL IS NOT RPT NOT GOING TO BRING SUCCESS FOR USA AND GOVT FORCES IN SVN.TEEY ARE ALMOST AS COMPLETELY J CONVINCED THAT KHAN GOVT IS LOSING GROUND ON LOCAL POLITICAL FRONT AND ARE CONFIDENT THAT IN FULLNESS OF TIME SUCCESS IS ASSURED FOR LIBERATION FRONT SUPPORTED BY DRVN. 13.1 WOULD HOWEVER CAUTION ON THE EXTREME DIFFICULTY OF FORMING i MEANINGFUL JUDGEMENTS ON BASIS OF BRIEF OR EVEN LONGER PERIOD f . • s pe n t in NORTHVIETNAM,w h ic h is a s in g u l a r l y c l o s e d s o c ie t y e v e n BY COMMUNIST STANDARDS.PRESS IS VERY UNINFORMATIVE AND I SUSPECT THAT MOST FOREIGN REPS INCLUDING THOSE OF EASTERNEUROPE KNOW LITTLE OF WHAT IS GOING ON.SOVIET AND CHINESE AMBASSADORS ARE PROBABLY ONLY ONES TAKEN AT ALL INTO DRVN CONFIDENCE AMD COUNCILS AND I AM NOT r pt n o t s a n g u in e a b o u t f o r m e r ,w h o w a s u n f o r t u n a t e l y a b s e n t DURING MY VISIT,OPENING UP TO ME AT LEAST ON FIRST MTG.I SHALL PEACE OF COURSE WITH FOREIGN REFS AND NORTEVIETNAMESE PUT Tits LIITATIO: SHULD BE FULLY UNDERSTOOD sea bo r n 000182 �Document disclosed under the Access to Information Act Document divulgue en vertu de la Loi sur l'acces a /'information APPENDIX IQ 1 * 22/04 i ; Fil WASHDC JUN22/64 TOPSEC BACON NO RPT HO DISTRIEUTIO : TO EXTERNALCFOR ARNOLD SMITH AND FAR EAST DIV)2250 OPIHHED I INFO TT SAIGON OPIMHED (FOR SEABORN) DE OTT REF SAIGCN TEL 273 JUN20 ■ ’ SEABORNS CALL ON NORTKVIETNAESE PH COHENT 07 WILLIAH BUNDY, ASST .SEC FOR FAREAST, WHEN I GAVE HIM : REFTEL TODAY,WAS THAT IT VAS A SUPERB REPORT,ALL THE MORE USEFUL BECAUSE OF ITS CLARITY IND THOROUGHNESS, AND THE PROMPTNESS WITH WHICH IT HAD DEEN PREPARED. 2.UNDERSTAIDABLY NEITHER BUNDY NOR SULLIVANG STATE DEPT COORDINATOR FOR VIETNAM, UNO VAS PRESENT UKEN REFTEL VAS HANDED OVEDUERE PREPARED TO COHENT AT LENGTH ON SUBVTANCE OF REFTEL wrniour HAVING OPPORTUNITY TO STUDY IT AT LENGTH,BUT THEY VERE DOTH OBVIOUSLY PLEASED AT APPARENT INITIAL SUCCESS OF OPERATION AND THEY SEEMED DISTINCTLY HOPEFUL THAT. A WORTHWHILE DIALOGUE MIGHT .BE POSSIBLE. BUNDY SAID HOWEVER THAT HE HAD AT PRESENT NO RPT NO PARTICULAR FEELING ABOUT TIMING OF ANOTHER VISIT TO HANOI; HE WISHED TO KNOW WHAT SEABORNS OWN PERSONAL PLANS MIGHT BE, AS WELL AS HIS ASSESSMENT OF DESIRABILITY OF AN EARLY VISIT TO NORTH.SULLIVAN MADE POINT THAT IT MIGHT BE PREFERABLE . NOT RPT NOT TO SHOW TOO MUCH. EAGERNESS, AND THAT SUSPICIONS SHOULD NOT RPT NOT BE CREATED IN SVN, WHERE COL AN HAD ALREADY GUESSED SOMETHING MIGHT BE AFOOT. WE WERE LEFT WITH IMPRESSION THAT WHILE AMERICANS WILL UNDOUBTEDLY. WANT TO MAKE SUGGESTIONS FOR USE ON SEABORNS NEXT VISIT,THEY MAY WANT TO DELAY FORMULATING THESE I UNTIL NOT RPT NOT LONG BEFORE HIS DATE OF DEPARTURE ON TRIP. IMPLICATION OF THIS,ALTHOUGH BUNDY DID NQT RPT NOT SAY SO,IS THAT THEY HAVE AS YET NOTHING NEW AND URGENT TO SAY TO DRVN. 3. SULLIVAN REMARKED ON PHAM VAN DONGS RPTD REFS TO SVN LIBERATION FRONT AND CCHENTED THAT THIS MIGHT BE HOST TRICKY ! f I | PROBLEM FOR USA TO HANDLE IN FORTHCOMING DIALOGUE,AS PHAM WAS 2 • 000183 �Document disclosed' under the Access to Information Act Document divulgue en vertu de la Loi sur l'acces a I'information 4 \ » PAGE TU0 2250 CLEARLY TRYING TO HAVE FRONT DEALT WITH AS SEPARATE ENTITY (AS PL IN LAOS)UHEREAS USA FELT FRONT WAS PURELY A NVN CREATION AND WOULD WANT TO TALK DIRECTLY TO NVN REGINE AND LAO DONG CIE NVN CCNUNIST PARTY). BUNDY REMARKED THAT PHAMS EPHASIS ON COALITION WITH LIBERATION FRONT AS BASIS FOR SVN NEUTRALITY WAS ALNOST EXACTLY WHAT COUVE DE URVILLE HAD PROPOSED AT APR SEATO “TG IN MANILA; DRVN HAD EVIDENTLY BEEN PUTTING ITS IDEAS TO FRENCH. 4. INTEREST WAS EXPRESSED IN HEARING FROM NORTHVIETNAHESE OF A SUPPOSEDLY HARDER LINE TYPECEG LE DUAN AND TRINH) ON SEABORNS NEXT TRIPsAS WELL AS HO CHI MINH HIMSELF AND GENERAL GIAP.IT WAS APPRECIATED HOWEVER THAT THESE OTHERS MIGHT NOT RPT NOT BE WILLING TO RECEIVE SEABORN WITHOUT SOME.OFFICIAL REASON. 5. COULD SEABORN INDICATE TO US AS SOON AS CONVENIENT HIS PRESENT THINKING ON A FURTHER VISIT? RITCHIE | 000184 � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Indochina (CDVN) Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context CDVN00029 Title A name given to the resource Appendix 10 - Text of Seaborn's reports from first Hanoi visit Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 22-Jun-64 Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived RG25/R219, 2017-00506-1, Box 3, Pt. 11, "A study of Canadian Policy with respect to the Vietnam Problem," Library and Archives Canada. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource LAC ATIP EA_2023_020894 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Canadian Crown Subject The topic of the resource Vietnam Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Canada Declassified Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF Language A language of the resource en