https://declassified.library.utoronto.ca/files/original/e01b04e175d86c09679f2778355feec1.pdf c5ba927b7731ad287f6fbce8423bbe51 PDF Text Text Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade I� . . Ministere des Affaires etrangeres et du Commerce international CANADA UNCLASSIFIED September 9, 1999 EXT l 507 (l 2/93) FACSIMILE/ TELECOPIE If there is any problem upon receipt of this fax, please call S'il y a des problemes a la reception de cette telecopie. priere d'appeler: Toi Destinataire Amb. Ken Sunquist 1) Jakarta - GR 2) APEC Del Auckland -ATTN: David Hickey, Mark Gwozdecki et al 3) MacKenzie Clugston, PCOOTT Tel Fax 011 64 9 374 1225; 597 5499 344 ; & 011 64 9 374 1225 From/ De John F. Donaghy Director Southeast Asia Division Lester B. Pearson Bldg Tel Fax 992 6807 944 1604 No of pages including this page/ Nombre de pages avec cette feuille: 17 SECOND MINA PRESS CONFERENCE COMMENTS/COMMENTAIRES: EAST TIMOR: Attached, for your information, is the transcript for Minister Axworthy's second telephonic press conference from Auckland. This one took place after yesterday's Foreign Ministers' meeting on the edges of APEC. �• • • page 1 09/09/99 - Auckland, New Zealand teleconference with Hon. Lloyd Axworthy "East Timar/ meeting of foreign ministers" HON. LLOYD A.XWORTHY: This will be a chance for you to catch up with the results of the meeting that was held this morning. I think it turned out even more active than we had hoped. We had 18 countries there including China; Russia; the United States; the O.K. came in for the meeting; plus five or six ASEAN countries; and even several Latin American countries like Peru, Chile, Mexico; and, of course, ourselves; New Zealand and I think what we were able to do -­ in an exceptional way -- use the APEC forum as a way of consolidating and bringing together a pretty broad section of the international community to discuss the matter. Outcomes. I think, we are -- first, expressing a very strong concern that will be conveyed directly to the Indonesian president and to Secretary General. A willingness to participate. I think that is an important outcome that countries around the table said: look, to make this thing credible, we have to be prepared to say that we will be there in a variety of different ways. Each country has in its own particular forum, but you can 1 t use an StenoTran (613) 521-0703 �• • • 09/09/99 - Auckland, New Zealand teleconference with Hon. Lloyd Axworthy "East Timor / meeting of foreign ministers" page 2 excuse that there is nobody there. And, thirdly, that -- really, calling upon the Security Council to address very quickly the deterioration of the situation. And if we can, have the Indonesians agree to a participation, if not, a (inaudible... } security force, at least to provide security for We are ready to provide humanitarian initiatives. direct food aid, for example, but we can't do so unless we get a guarantee that people delivering it will be properly protected. So it was a good step. I think, though, Don McKinnon will be issuing a statement of that kind and will be carrying the message forward. guess for my own assessment, it was very important to have so many of the international community there, particularly from the Security Council, because it means that there is maybe the beginning of an agreement on how to proceed. Q. with the National Post. Mr. Axworthy, Sheldon Alberts Can you clarify where things broke down, in terms of who is supportive of the peace-keeping force, who was supportive of -HON. LLOYD AXWORTHY: Well, I mean, I think, this is a consultation we called. StenoTran (613) 521-0703 I mean I �• • • page 3 09/09/99 - Auckland, New Zealand teleconference with Hon. Lloyd Axworthy "East Timor / meeting of foreign ministers" there were several countries who said that this is still a responsibility of Indonesia. Others were saying but it is not being met and, therefore, we have to have an international presence. I think everyone agreed that ultimately there will be an international presence. Some of us would just like to see it sooner than later. What (inaudible) agreed to is that those concerns would be agreed to both the Secretary General and to President Habibie directly, personally. Having that broad representation, that composition of that meeting, I think, we hope will provide even further influence on the government and on the UN. Mr. Axworthy, it is Norma Q. Greenaway. When you say everybody agrees that there should be some sort of international presence, what is Do you think you have to get holding it up now? permission from the Indonesian authority? HON. LLOYD AXWORTHY: is the major issue. I think that There are those who feel that it has to come via a request from Indonesia as opposed to one in which we say Indonesia should accept it. it may sound like a new one, but it is a pretty important one. StenoTran (613) 521-0703 While �• • • page 4 09/09/99 - Auckland, New Zealand teleconference with Hon. Lloyd Axwon:hy "East Timor / meeting of foreign ministers" Q. Mr. Ax.worthy, you were able to get Indonesia there as an observer. That seems to be a bit of a change when we spoke to you this afternoon -HON. LLOYD AXWORTHY: Yes, that is right_ Q. What do you think you can take from that? HON. LLOYD AXWORTHY: Well, I mean, I think that we found this morning when we began the meetings that, I mean, we had spent a lot time last evening talking to people and I think the fact that the ASEAN countries were there -- I think there were six ASEAN countries there -- says an important statement in itself. They came on the grounds that this was not a gang up on Indonesia, but an attempt to find some solutions. Indonesia there. It was important to have They indicated to me that they are interested in at least maintaining a line of communication on this issue with the rest of us. Q. CTV News. Mr. Axworthy, Rita Laflamme at We have just received word, in fact, that Indonesia's military says that the burning has stopped and East Timor is under control. If we were to believe that were true, would we still need, would the StenoTran (613) 521-0703 �• • • page 5 09/09/99 - Auckland, New Zealand teleconference with Hon. Lloyd Axworthy "East Timor / meeting of foreign ministers" international community still need some kind of permission to send an unarmed force in there to help restore some kind of order that has been destroyed this past week? HON. LLOYD A.XWORTHY: Well, under the main agreement there is a provision for UN presence. The (inaudible) group was only pulling out because of the disorder that was taking place. They certainly have a right to be back in and, as you know, there is a system under the UN agreement for military liaison officers and observers to be on the scene. It is just that they haven't been able �o do their work because of the breakdown -Q. What else would Canada be willing to put on the table in that -HON. LLOYD AXWORTHY: Well, one of the things that we put forward this morning is, because of the severity of the humanitarian crisis, the shortage of food and water. We would be prepared to move ahead, but we would, again, have to have security approvals. I would like to -- we will try to reach my ambassador in Indonesia later today to see if he will follow up with Indonesian authorities to see what kind of arrangement could be made. Q. StenoTran (613) 521-0703 Mr. Axworthy, could you clarify �• • • page 6 09/09/99 - Auckland, New Zealand teleconference with Hon. Lloyd Axworthy "East Timor / meeting of foreign ministers" Canada 1 s position for me? Are you saying that you want permission from Indonesia before you agree that an international force should go in? HON. LLOYD AXWORTHY: I am saying that we need an agreement at the United Nations. The Security Council is the governing body on this matter. We are asking that the Security Council meet very shortly to work on the assessment that the perm reps have made. But now, I think, with what I would think a voice from a number of countries representing the international community of concern and interest and willingness to participate -- but to come back to that point, nobody was saying that you can march a group of peace enforcers in without an agreement because you have got 26,000 Indonesian troops and police in East Timor. No one is asking for that kind of confrontation. Q. Can you react to the statement that was referred to earlier that the Indonesian military says the burning has stopped and that it is under control? Is that -HON. LLOYD AXWORTHY: I would hope -- I can't, you know, I am not there -- we are just relying upon reports we get from our ambassador and from other international observers. StenoTran (613) 521-0703 �• • • 09/09199 • Auckland, New Zealand teleconference with Hon. Lloyd Axworthy "East Timor / meeting of foreign ministers" page 7 If, in fact, it has stopped and if the martial law is being applied, then that is a very useful step. But I think it -- to be shown. Perhaps, when we get a report from the (inaudible ... ) remain UN people who are there as part of the mission we will have a better sense of that. Mr. Axworthy, why has the UN Q. never recognized Indonesia's control over East Timor in the first place. Why, in fact, do they have to seek approval now? HON. LLOYD AXWORTHY: there was an agreement made. Well, because A tripartite agreement between Portugal, Indonesia, and the United Nations as to what process would be followed -Are you saying that Indonesia Q. lived up to its part in that agreement? HON. LLOYD AXWORTHY: Well, all I am saying is that it is up to the United Nations to determine how to -- if it is not being applied, and we are saying the disorder that has been apparent this past week indicates that there is a breakdown of it, how do they fulfil it. make that decision. signed. But it is the UN which will That is the agreement they That is what the role the Security Council is. StenoTran (613) 521-0703 �• • • page 8 09/09/99 - Auckland, New Zealand teleconference with Hon. Lloyd Axworthy "East Timar / meeting of foreign ministers" As you know, last week we had made an effort at the Security Council to have contingencies looked at, but that was not supported. I go back to what I said this morning -- I don't know if you were in attendance but part of the problem is that you have to build up agreement and consensus of those on the Council and the international community as to what could be done. That is why we have been working actively here in Auckland during the APEC meetings. While APEC is not a forum for security questions, I think we were able to -- and this is what I think has surprised most people -- we got the agreement of 18 of the APEC countries' foreign ministers to come to the meeting this morning. Q. Mr. Axworthy, it is Randall Palmer again from Reuters. If this report is true that the burning has stopped and these killings have stopped, would that take some of the impetus out of the drive to get an armed UN presence in East Timor? HON. LLOYD AXWORTHY: Well, Randall, I think we are still worried about the security and safety of the people in East Timar. the criteria. That, to me, is The burning is one aspect of it. I think there are other things going on which are also StenoTran (613) 521-0703 �• • • page 9 09/09/99 - Auckland, New Zealand teleconference with Hon. Lloyd Axworthy "East Timor I meeting of foreign ministers" unacceptable: movement of people beyond borders, intimidation, the attacks upon UN personnel. So there is a number of conditions that would have to be met. If this is the beginning of it, then I think we would say that we would welcome that part, but it is only a beginning. Q. Mr. Axworthy, Paul Samyn from (inaudible) Press again. You stated, you talked about an agreement on moving toward the UN. Is that in the form of a communique or is that simply that there was a nodding of heads around the table that people were sort of headed in one direction. Can you clarify exactly what comes out of this meeting? HON. LLOYD AXWORTHY: Well, I think what comes out -- I mean, Paul, in any of these diplomatic means there is a lot of discussion and then some conclusions are drawn. The conclusions were that, the Chair -- who, in this case, was Don McKinnon, the foreign minister from New Zealand we asked him to go as the Chair because we thought it was appropriate even though we had organized the meeting -- really, could call or what he calls the intent of the meeting. The intent was, as we stated it, there are differences and we were aiming to see how much agreement we could draw out of this session; StenoTran (613) 521-0703 �• • • page 10 09/09/99 - Auckland, New Zealand teleconference with Hon. Lloyd Axworthy "East Timor / meeting of foreign ministers" I think we did get the agreement that there has to be an international presence, but conditional upon UN mandating this and the agreement of Indonesia. Now, if conditions are changing, the international presence I think is still important because it -- whatever happens, there will have to be a UN presence eventually anyway. This is just Phase I of the independence process. There are several months ahead of us. First, Indonesia has to -- Parliament, Assembly has to agree to the independence vote. From what we hear, Indonesia, if they follow through will pull out by March- That means there is a total vacuum and there will have to be both civil administration and security at that time. So, it is not a matter of yet, it is a matter of when. Q. You discussed that some of the countries had differences on how to approach this, Mr. Axworthy, can you tell us what some of those conflicts were around that table today? HON. LLOYD AXWORTHY: not to get into that_ I would prefer I mean, we called the meeting as a way of trying to get agreement. I don 1 t think I want to, sort of, start singling out individual countries -- StenoTran (613) 521-0703 �• • • page 12 09/09/99 • Auckland, New Zealand teleco_nference with Hon. Lloyd Axworthy "East Timor / meeting of foreign ministers" was not prepared to take "No" for an answer. Flowing from this, if there is a UN Security Council mandate, but Indonesia still says: on our soil. sorry, you are not corning I mean, where do you go from there? Is Canada HON. LLOYD AXWORTHY: Well, you are getting into a lot of speculation now. We don't know what the report will be. We don't know what the resolution that will be presented -- so it is pretty hard for me to say what we will do in light of all these 11 if-maybe 1 s 11 • What I am simply reporting to you today is that we took the risk or the initiative to bring countries together here at APEC. I think those of you who have covered it know that, in itself, was an unusual step, a different step. But I think it was an important one because to have ignored the issue, I think, would have been a serious mistake. But we didn't and we have been able to get the countries together into this consultation. coming out. We got the results And I think perhaps it will allow us in the future to maintain these lines of communication with countries in the region, the ASEAN countries who are closest to it. I was particularly pleased to see StenoTran (613) 521-0703 �-��-· · · -- ------- • • • page 14 09/09/99 - Auckland, New Zealand teleconference with Hon. Lloyd Axworthy "East Timor / meeting of foreign ministers" try to find the most useful way to put the bricks down and get some cement to put them together. I think we had some success today in doing that, but there are still a lot things that have to be done. Q. I am still a little unclear, Mr. Axworthy, on exactly what those things, what were put in place, some of the results of that meeting -- I mean, while the wheels are in motion with these meetings the situation is deteriorating in East Timor. Can you give us any better timeline? HON. LLOYD AXWORTHY: Well, I just said there were a number of propositions or statements that came out of the meeting representing the views of the l8 countries who were there, in terms of expressing their concern; asking that order be restored; reminding Indonesia of its obligations; insisting that the Security Council come to address the matter very shortly and that countries there are prepared to participate in an international activity; and also to help on the humanitarian side. Having that brought together at the APEC meeting, I would say, a useful step. Q. So every country was committed to the idea they would participate in this force? HON. LLOYD AXWORTHY: StenoTran (613) 521-0703 I am just �• • • page 15 09/09/99 - Auckland, New Zealand teleconference with Hon. Lloyd Axworthy "East Timor / meeting of foreign ministers" trying to think -- there were a number who said that they were prepared to pa�ticipate; some may have held back; some say they don't; some of them are very poor countries like Vietnam and others who have pretty limited resources. I was encourage by the fact that there was a pretty substantial willingness to say: look, if called upon, we will see what we can do. Q. Mr. Axworthy, there seems to be some sort of gap between the idea that the Security Council should address this quickly and have a peace-keeping force if the Indonesians agree; and, on the other hand, not taking "No" for an answer. So, in other words, if they say "No" and continue to say "No" and, therefore, we don't have an agreement, what would happen? How do you go from there? HON. LLOYD AX.WORTHY: Well, we will deal with that when we come to it -- which could be fairly soon. I am afraid I have to go off and join my colleagues for lunch now. I hope this gives you a little bit of sense of what has taken place. If you want, we will try to keep you informed -- although this brings, in terms of the discussion of East Timer, we are going on to some other matters -- but if there are other questions, you StenoTran (613) 521-0703 �• • • 09/09/99 - Auckland, New Zealand teleconference with Hon. Lloyd Axworthy "East Timor / meeting of forei gn ministers" page 16 can forward them and we will try to get back to you. Okay? Thank you very much. Q. StenoTran (613) 521-0703 Thank you, Mr. Axworthy. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource East Timor and Indonesia Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Second MINA press conference Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 09-09-99 Subject The topic of the resource Indonesia, East Timor Description An account of the resource East Timor: Second MINA press conference. Transcript of press conference conducted by satellite between Axworthy in Auckland and Canadian reporters. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Canada Declassified Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Canadian Crown Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource PDF Language A language of the resource en Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context CDET0014