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                    <text>TOP SECRET
September 5, 1952.
Visit of the Secretary of State
for External Affairs to Washington
September Zi.-5. 1952
Summary of Conversation at Dinner
at the Embassy Residence. September 5
The following were present at the dinner:
Mr.
Mr.
Mr.
Mr.
Mr.
Mr.

Pearson
Acheson
Wrong
Freeman Matthews
Perkins
Ignatieff

The following subjects were discussed:
1.
2.
3.

NATO problems;
British economic problems;
Question of the postponement of the general debate
at the forthcoming session of the General Assembly.

1.

NATO Problems:

Mr. Pearson explained that one of the purposes of
his forthcoming visit to Europe was to turn over the Chairmanship of the North Atlantic Council at the end of his tenure
of this office for a calendar year to the Foreign Minister
of Denmark. He said that since he was a candidate for
election to the presidency of the forthcoming General
Assembly of the U.N. he thought that it was particularly
important that he should turn over his office now, rather
than wait until the North Atlantic Council Ministerial
meeting on December 15. Mr. Acheson readily agreed that
this was desirable.
Mr. Pearson said that he also wished to discuss
current NATO problems with Lord Ismay, with particular
reference to preparations for the annual review and the
decisions which would have to be taken at the Ministerial
meeting on force targets. He hoped that it would be possible
this time to avoid the kind of controversy which arose before
and after the Lisbon Council meeting as a result of statements which appeared in the press comparing the alleged
performances of the respective signatories in meeting the
recommendations of the Temporary Council Committee; and to
avoid as well the issue of ambiguous announcements of
military objectives. While he recognized that decisions
would have to be taken by the Ministers to complete the
Lisbon 1952 programme as quickly as possible and to continue
the military buildup, balancing military, economic and
political considerations, he hoped that it would not be
necessary to confront governments with specific qualitative
targets which they would be urged publicly to fulfil in
1953. This was not meant to imply that firm figures might
not be set for 1953, but we should avoid public debate on
the subject prior to NATO agreement, and also avoid as far
as possible the projection of figures beyond 1953 in such a
way that we appear to accept them as agreed. He also wished
to examine, while he was in Europe, the implications of the
announced cutback in the British defence programme with
particular reference to the thesis which had been put
forward in justifying it. He was worried about the effect
000074

�- 2 of this and recent French statements on NATO objectives and
NATO morale. This thesis assumed a revision of the strategic
concept governing North Atlantic military planning by assuming
a greater reliance upon the strategic and tactical use of new
weapons and of air power. This thesis, while it had certain
superficial attractions, as it seemed to justify reductions
in overall military expenditures and particularly the reduction of ground forces which would have to be made available
after the first 60 to 90-day period following D-Day, had
serious political implications, particularly in respect of
probable reactions in continental Europe where once again
they might think they were being considered as expendable.
Mr. Acheson made it clear that he had no sympathy
for the British thesis. It seemed to him that it was a rationalization advanced to justify the decision taken by the British
Government for political reasons to cut back its defence
programme. The British argument, he said, could not be
justified by the facts. The strategic use of atomic weapons
would not materially affect the campaign which would have to
be fought to stop the advance of the Soviet forces in Europe.
The strategic counter-offensive which would be launched from
the United States would only have longer-term effects upon
the Soviet war potential. In the meantime, it was essential
that there should be sufficient ground forces with tactical
air support to stop the Soviet advance. No one had suggested
that these forces should be of a magnitude which would permit
them to mount a counter-offensive to drive the Soviet forces
into the Soviet Union. The assumption was that, initially,
the Soviet forces would advance a considerable distance into
Western Europe and it would be necessary to launch at least
an initial counter-offensive in order to stop the momentum of
the Soviet advance. This explains the necessity of having
covering forces immediately available for combat, with forces
in reserve which would be made available within 30, 60, or
90 days of the beginning of the battle.
Mr. Acheson said that the British thesis also seemed
to assume the existence of new types of special weapons which
could be used tactically in the land battle to compensate
for the numerical superiority of the Soviet ground forces.
Mr. Acheson said that while it was true that the United
States was experimenting with the development of a number
of what he called "Buck Rogers" gadgets, none of these could
be counted upon for use in the field until about 1956.
Mr. Acheson said that the British thesis also seemed
to assume that the Soviet Union has no intention of launching
a general war in the next two or three years. If by this it
was meant that the Soviet leaders were not likely to decide
to go to war on the calculation that Western military power
now being built up might later place them at a greater
military disadvantage, he was inclined to agree. This, however,
he suggested, was not the real danger. The risks of general
war were more likely, in his opinion, to arise from a different
set of circumstances. There were certain circumstances, he
particularly mentioned Korea and Berlin, in which the national
security interests of the Soviet Union and the United States
and other powers were so directly engaged that some unforeseen
development might unloose a chain of events (none of which
by themselves might be decisive), but which, taken together,
might precipitate a general war. For instance, a serious air
offensive launched against the U.N. forces in Korea from
across the Yalu River would represent a most serious challenge
to the security of U.S. forces in Korea that might well
precipitate a chain of events. In Berlin, Mr. Acheson thought
it was unthinkable that Western Powers could give up a position
which the Soviet Government had in its power to make untenable
from a military point of view.
ip^Q

000075

�&gt;

- 3 The second type of situation which Mr. Acheson
regarded as inherently containing the risks of general war
was a local conflict in which the interests of the United
States, as well as the Soviet Union, became increasingly
and directly involved. He cited as an example the present
situation in Indo-China and in the Middle East. Neither in
Indo-China nor in the Middle East had the United States
sufficient resources to take preventive action in advance.
The United States, therefore, had to improvise with the
military resources available such action as was necessary
to impede the fulfilment of Communist designs.
Returning to the question of the NATO force targets,
Mr. Acheson said that the main object of NATO military planning
at present was to build up the minimum forces necessary to
stop the initial Soviet attack. In order to provide the
basis for the necessary request to Parliaments for the
authorization of funds, force targets seemed to him essential.
Mr. Pearson then said it was the process of establishing them
and the publicity given to that process which worried him.
Mr. Acheson suggested that a distinction might be made between
the tactics employed in the presentation of such targets to
the public and their use by governments for supporting defence
appropriations. He did not see, however, how it was possible
to avoid establishing firm force targets for 1953; otherwise,
the United States, for example, would not have any firm basis
on which to request Congress for foreign military aid in
support of the NATO defence programme. He implied that it
might be possible to reduce to some extent NATO targets insofar as the military requirements recommended by the Standing
Group proved to be beyond the economic capabilities of the
respective NATO members. It was necessary, however, in his
view, to continue the buildup of forces to the extent that
the economic resources of the member nations would permit.
The possibility of using new atomic weapons, tactical and
strategic, could not affect NATO military planning in the
next two or three years.
2.

British Economic Problems:

Mr. Pearson outlined as a matter bearing on NATO
defence questions the plans for the Commonwealth economic
conference to be held in London at the beginning of November,
and the preparatory official talks which were to precede
this conference. He also Indicated in general terms the
approach of the Canadian Government to the problems raised
at this conference, emphasizing that it was the Canadian view
that the conference would have to examine both external and
domestic policies of the members, in order to find remedies
rather than palliatives. Canada's attitude would, he thought,
be constructive, co-operative but realistic.
Mr. Acheson expressed very gloomy views about British
economic prospects. He suggested that there were two main
problems involved (a) the domestic decisions which confront the
members of the sterling bloc, particularly
the United Kingdom; and
(b) the question of the sterling debt.
He was not optimistic about the prospects of the United Kingdom
Government taking the necessary domestic decisions which would
serve to establish British solvency. The sharp division within
the country between those who were firmly committed to Socialist
doctrine and those who sought to maintain Capitalist free
enterprise resulted in an unstable political situation in
which no government could maintain itself in power for a time
„ ^. r, •

• 000076

sufficit„_

�- 4sufficient to permit either doctrine to be applied effectively.
He thought that it was most improbable that Mr. Churchill's
administration could, in fact, take the kind of actions which,
were necessary to stem the inflationary trend in Britain.
Cuts in the food subsidies and social services, for example,
would affect approximately 80% of the population that were
benefiting from the subsidized prive level and would almost
certainly lose the next election for the Conservatives. He
suggested that the British Government had missed its best
opportunity to revise its economic policy immediately after
the last election. As regards the question of the sterling
debt, it was his understanding that the remedy would have to
depend on the co-operation of governments such as India,
Pakistan and Egypt in agreeing to the refunding of this
debt, and he doubted whether these agreements would be forthcoming.
3.

Question of the Postponement of the General Debate
at the forthcoming Session of the General Assembly:

Mr. Pearson said that he was rather concerned about
the insistence of Messrs. Eden and Schuman that the general
debate, which was usually held at the beginning of the
session of the General Assembly, should be postponed until
after the U.S. Presidential elections. He thought it was
most undesirable that the U.S. general elections should be
advanced as the reason for changing the plans of the General
Assembly. He doubted whether such an argument would be
acceptable to a majority at the General Assembly.
Mr. Acheson said that he agreed that it was undesirable
that such a reason should be advanced for a postponement of
the general debate. However, he suggested that the problem
might be approached from a pragmatic point of view. He
suggested that it should be quite feasible to arrange consideration of the various items on the agenda so that it would
not be necessary for Messrs. Eden and Schuman to come to New
York until after the elections. He said that he was definitely
sympathetic to the request of Messrs. Eden and Schuman. If
the roles were reversed and he had to attend a conference
in either the United Kingdom or France while elections were
proceeding there, he would hesitate about attending the
conference for fear that he would inevitably, by some remark,
become Involved in a political controversy. He suggested
that it was unnecessary to make any a priori decision on
the question of postponement.
Mr. Pearson suggested a compromise might be found in
beginning the general debate, allowing it to go on for a
couple of days, then postponing it for a couple of weeks,
on the ground that some delegations have stated they are
not ready to proceed; then go ahead with Committee work
until Eden and Schuman arrive.

000077

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London, September 82, 1952

TOP SECRET

^ S "

MEMORANDUM BY MR. PEAHSON REG-AR51H5 TALKS IK LONDON AHD

&lt;L

^

PARIS OH NATO DEFENCE PHOPftAMMBS AHD STRATEGY.
The first discussion of these matters was during
my conference with Mr. Eden on Friday morning, September 12,
but it was general In character. He did, however, express
emphatic appreciation of the Importance of the permanent
NATO Council and of the desirability of using it for political discussions* Xn this connection he referred with
satisfaction to the discussion which had recently been held
on Germany. This surprised both Mr. Robertson and myself
because of the attitude that the foreign Office had taken ••towards such discussions, an attitude vfaich had apparently
been expressed in Instructions to Hoyer-Hlllar, which were
almost rudely negative In character. Incidentally, Mr.
Eden repeated this favourable view of Council political
discussions at his luncheon on that day. The opposition
to these seems to come from officials In the Foreign Office,
a fact which was confirmed by the Intervention of PiersonDlxon at the luncheon In question.
At this luncheon, which was attended, among
others, by Lord Alexander, Sir Ian Jacob, the United States
Ambassador and William Draper, there was a general conversation over a number of NATO military and political subjects.
Draper Indeed made quite a speech in v&amp;lch he emphasized
the Importance of the United Kingdom pushing ahead with
their defence programme and completing their review of this
programs in time to have the NATO Annual Heview completed
by December IS. The United Kingdom persons present, however,
were doubtful whether this would be possible, and were also
inclined to emphasize economic and financial difficulties*
While Draper emphasized the need for speed In this matter,
ho took the opposite view in respect of the strategic reassessment which was underway by the Standing Group and
which was to take account of "new weapons*. H© did not
think that this would be completed in time to affect NATO
firm planning for 1953. In fact he added - to the obvious
disappointment of the other guests * that Washington would
need from six to nine months more for this re-assessment
(a view which incidentally he reaffirmed In Paris). The
United Kingdom obviously found this news discouraging and
somewhat mystifying and felt that they have not been given
the real reasons which would Justify such a delay.
At tho luncheon Mr. Eden repeated what he had
said to Mr. Robertson and to me earlier, that the current
"recasting" of the United Kingdom defence programme would
not likely save them much money, but it would make possible
the more efficient use of the funds to be appropriated.
This view was later confirmed by Lord Alexander and Sir
Ian Jacob. It was agreed, however, though not with any
enthusiasm, by both Mr. Eden and Lord Alexander that Draper
was correct In assessing that the curve of NATO defence
effort must still continue to move upward. I have my own
doubts, however, whether the United Kingdom really accept
this so far as their own effort Is concerned, and these
ftoubts were strengthened by the discussion Mr. Heeney and
I had with Lord Alexander and sir Ian Jacob after lunch
the same afternoon.

• • •2
000044

�— a *

This was an Interesting discussion at which both
Lord Alexander and Sir Ian Jacob, who did a good deal of the
talking, argued that it would not be possible to agree on
any realistic NATO programme for 1953 until the re-assessment
referred to above had been received; any planning would be
largely artificial which did not take into account the new
weapons and strategy. Lord Alexander emphasized several
times his conviction that "quality, not quantity'* should be
the objective In NATO planning for the defence of the West.
He and Jacob both felt that it would be better to concentrate
on having the SO divisions for 1952 properly equipped,
trained and supported, than to agree or plan for a larger
number of which a proportion would only be "cardboard
divisions"*
-

c\

There was a good deal of talk In this connection
about the inadequacy of the equipment and logistic support
for the existing divisions and about the importance of hew
weapons in NATO strategy and tactics. Both Lord Alexander
and Jacob were pretty optimistic about the effectiveness
of the strategic atomic counter-attack in the early stages
of the battle for Europe and argued that this was an element
In planning which had to be taken into account. They recognised, however, the American difficulty arising out of the
MaoHahon Act, and indeed out of other circumstances which
made it impossible to have a satisfactory NATO appreciation
made at the present time with all existing atomic information
made available for that purpose*
In speaking of the technical advances being made
and supporting his argument in favour of "quality", Lord
Alexander indicated that the U.K. Government regarded heavy
anti-aircraft weapons as obsolescent and spoke of the early
effectiveness to be expected of the guided missile. We
should rely on these for passive defence*
I brought up the question of the minimum NATO
force required for the defence of Western Europe* Jacob
indicated, without any qualification, that 50 divisions
effectively armed and supported was the maximum which the
Western European economy (leaving Germany out) could
support at the present time but that such a force plus the
German divisions would be adequate for the purpose. That
purpose was to hold off the attack while the air counteroffensive was operating. This seems to ma to be a most
important statement of United Kingdom policy and It will
be interesting to discover whether they maintain it in
NATO discussions when the Americans put forward, as they
are bound to do, larger totals of divisions and aircraft
for 1953.
I brought up the question of the advisability of
the United kingdom engaging in strategio atom bombing.
Would It not be hotter for this country, now that it had
actually manufactured a bomb, to divert its energy and
resources to the development of atomic energy in other
fields leaving the military side entirely to the United
States? certainly it would be difficult to understand the
United Kingdom plea for economy In defence if thay now began
to undertake this most expensive form of military operation,
Jacob however stated that the United Kingdom authorities
felt that unless the United Kingdom participated In atomic
air bombing, they would be unable to influence the usetoi
be made of this weapon and the United States would neglect
targets of vital Importance to Britain, such as submarine
bases, etc. It was a matter of national safety and not
.

, . 3

000045

�- 3 -

national prestige. The answer to this Is, though I did not
give it; why not approach the Americans to see whether
agreement could not be reached on targets, e t c , which
would satisfy the special United Kingdom defence needs*
I mentioned to Lord Alexander and Jacob and. Indeed,
to others both in London and Paris our worries about a minis*
terial meeting of NATO in December in relation to the stage
which the annual review was likely to reach by that time-*
the danger of "spotlighting the gaps"— and not having
sufficient time to complete the process of reconciliation.
I am not sure that this danger is fully appreciated by the
U.K. Ministers. They are anxious to have a revision of the
Lisbon planning goals based on a new appreciation, but it Is
difficult to sea how this can be expected by December 15*
The determining factor, however, seems to be United States
political exigencies.
In Paris the subjects of NATO strategy and defenc©
planning were discussed In a very interesting and frank
manner at the informal" NATO Council meeting on Tuesday,
September 16, about which a separate report has been made,
I also had the benefit of informal discussions on the same
subjects with General Ridgway, General Bradley and General
Greunther at a luncheon given by Lord Ismay, though there
was not time for anything more than casual exchanges of
views.
It seemed quite clear on my visit to London and
Paris that there is a very real difference of opinion
between the United States representatives, especially the
military representatives, on the one hand, and the European
members of NATO on the other, as to the need for an even
greater defence buildup in 1953 and the desirability at
the next meeting of NATO Ministers of establishing firm
goals for that year wall in excess of the present 1952
figures. Reflecting this difference of opinion there is
naturally a difference of opinion over the risk of war,
whether it is now less than before. As was pointed out
by Aiphand in our NATO informal meeting unless there con bo
a general agreement on the assessment of this risk, there is
not likely to be agreement on requirements to meet it. At
the same time it is quite obvious that the approach to the
problem of risk is Influenced to a very considerable extent
by economic factors; especially in European countries and
by their own national position in collective strategic
planning; that is whether they are likely to be immediate
victims of an attaok from land or from air and whether they
are considered in Washington to be expendable,
1 found in my discussion with the NATO members a
strong and growing reluctance to support or even discuss
NATO defence plans without much more Information than has
up to the present been made available regarding the strategy
of the Pentagon both in regard to atomic warfare and European
defenoe. It is impossible not to have some sympathy with
this viewpoint. At the same time one should appreciate not
only the normal reluctance of the military planners to put
all their cards on a political table, but also thoir special
reluctance to disclose their secret plans to governments
whose security reputations vary. There is a real and an
Increasingly important dilemma here and it cam© into the
open in our NATO discussions on Tuesday and Thursday;
especially I should think, in the remarks of the Netherlands

,

,

. 4

000046

�- 4
mombor. It was because the Secretary-General's paper on
NATO strategy emphasized not only economic factors but the
Importance of giving tho NATO Council all possible strategic
information, that it was so heartily welcomed b^ the members
of tho Council other than the United states representative
who obviously found himself In a difficult position.
There is also an increasing and an intelligent
reluctance to agree, largely for American political consumption,
on programmes and goals which are not likely to be reached,
except in a very artificial way, In the time set. Surely it
would be much bettor to take for our 1953 programme, as the
first essential thing to do, the achievement of the 1952
objective; not achievement merely on paper but in fact. Once
this has been done then additional firm goals could, if necessary, be decided and mode public. This, of oourse, would not
remove the necessity of planning farther in advance than 12
months, but it would remove public attention from that necessity and relieve Governments from the duty of explaining and
defending the gaps between promises and performances. I
argued this thesis with everyboSy I encountered over here
and found a very general acceptance of it except in United
States quarters. It Is felt In such quarters that this
courso would be, too dangerous because it would give the
impression la tho United States that we were abandoning goals
which we had previously agreed oh and indeed would encourage
Europeans to relax rather than maintain the defence effort.
There is, of oourse, something in this. Yet I feel that the
two points of view can be reconciled. That, however, will
not be done if wo accept under Amerioan pressure at the
December meeting paper figures as a substitute for what wa
really think can be done In the economic and politloal circumstances of 1953. We will hove to face this matter soon and
more frankly than we have done in the past. 1 hope that defence
planning can proceed steadily and effectively without slavish
adherence to unrealistic and publicly declared totals even
though they are said to be "for planning purposes only". In
this way wo can getaway from our dangerous practice of concentrating in public on gaps and comparative performances.
I think we should explore this whole matter very carefully so
that at the December mooting, while a great deal of time will
have to be devoted to the Annua! Review and there will havo to
be confidential discussion of foroe totals, e t c , we might be
able to eonflne our publio announcement to tho fact that v.e
are pushing ahead with tho Lisbon 1952 totals until they are
completed end making certain that thia completion is IQOfS
effective; also that when this goal has been fully achieved
further announcements will be made on sub sequent programmes.
Among other things, this would mean that by the time such
further announcement, etxxxtonxm^cxDnxmitmn^ntiiit is made we
would have some necessary Information from the United States
on the "new strategy" and "new weapons"*
So far as the risk of war is concerned, my visit
confirmed my feeling that there is a general disposition ia
European quarters to feel that it has lessened during the last
year or so; a feeling strengthened in the Council by Lord
Ismay*s paper's reference to this subject. There is recognition however that the situation has worsened In the Far
Seat, though this does not convey the same feeling of immediate crisis to Europeans. There is a danger in tnis feeling
of easement being oarrlod too far; especially as It fits Into
the desire to reduce defence expenditures because of economic
considerations. So the Americans - through their representatives at N; TO and e ioe where in Europe and their steady stream
of visitors from Washington, especially from the Pentagon keep pounding away at tho thesis that the danger is just as
great and as immediate as ever. They make socio Impression 000047

�and it is well that these things should be said - but at
times th© Americans say them In a way which strengthens the
European feeling that there is just about as much to be
feared from U.S. rashness as from Soviet aggression. Her©
the development of consultation and frank discussion in the
Council; tho strenthening of the prestige and authority of
that body, can do much to help.
For this reason - and because of the growing
importance of the Council in the planning of defence and
broad strategy - It was encouraging to learn that this central Agency of NATO after a shaky and somewhat discouraging
start, Is becoming stronger, better organized and more
effective.
r*

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